MyDD :: Obama should stop demanding a 50/50 split in MI

Obama should stop demanding a 50/50 split in MI

by highgrade, Sat May 31, 2008 at 05:33:54 PM EST

Look, Obama will have a pledged delegate lead whichever way this plays out. Also, it appears as though the Florida compromise is pretty much completed and accepted by both parties. What is the point of demanding a 50/50 split. At the most we should take a split which gives Clinton her delegates and the uncommitted to Obama. Fighting for the extra delegates that comes from a 50/50 split is pointless. All it is doing is to make this spectacle - and that's exactly what is has become - even more contentious.

I could only watch a couple minutes of this coverage before I was ready to throw my remote at the TV in disgust. The idea that at the same time McCain is criss crossing the country raising money, we're still whooping and hollering at each other, trying to out applaud each other - is just ridiculous.

At this point it looks like the balance of the super delegates are going to support Obama. They understand that this is just a political exercise. I don't think we're going to see SD's reconsider their support for Obama just because Hillary comes out of this Rules meeting with more delegates than Obama wanted/thought was fair.

OK sorry for the disjointed rant. Carry along.

Tags: obama, hillary, 2008, michigan, florida (all tags)

Permalink :: 40 Comments :: Post a Comment

Re: Obama should stop demanding a 50/50 split in M (none / 0)

It's called compromise. He offered 50/50, Clinton says all hers count but uncommitted stays that way, with the possibility of going to anyone (heck, they could go to Mike Gravel!).

So the decision ought to be somewhere in the middle. Worry not, Obama already signaled he'd abide by whatever the RBC decided.

Serious question- Is This Snark?

by ragekage on Sat May 31, 2008 at 05:36:03 PM EST

Quite a few of the uncommitted supported Edwards (1.66 / 3)

and other candidates. Michigan has a lot of unemployment, and people need UHC. Edwards supported universal healthcare, which is probably why a lot of people wanted him. Obama doesn't. So 50/50 is not at all a realistic number. Obama probably would have gotten closer to 30-35% Which is probably why he pulled himself out.

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by architek on Sat May 31, 2008 at 05:47:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Quite a few of the uncommitted (2.00 / 1)

Unfortunately, Obama also supports universal healthcare for anyone who wants it. But you're right - some really stupid people may ahve believed teh HRC spin and believed that Obama would "leave them out".

by Lance Bryce on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:00:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Quite a few of the uncommitted (none / 0)

universal health for anyone who wants it isn't universal health care. Some really stupid people may have believed the OB spin though.

by searchforsolidarity on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:16:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Quite a few of the uncommitted (none / 0)

No - not true at all.

Here's what you were saying:

Obama leaves people out. These working class people would have supported Edwards.

Well - not exactly. Because you're a liar, and Obama's plan covers anyone who wants healthcare.

Obama's plan would potentially leave out folks who just chose not to have healthcare (some sources estimate that this would be up to 15 million, including illegal immigrants and others who didn't bother to get it).

So - you're a liar. Or else you're just too stupid to understand the difference between the plans. Frankly, I like a mandate. I support Hillary's plan. But you're a liar and you try to make Obama into a villain when that's clearly BS.

by Lance Bryce on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 04:05:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

My delegates (none / 0)

Don't forget that I wanted delegates too. I may not have been on the ballot but it's completely unfair to the BPK80 for President Campaign (which I still haven't formally suspended) to give me no delegates.

Lifelong Democrat, civil rights advocate, former volunteer for Dem candidates. Now Independent.

by BPK80 on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:06:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My delegates (2.00 / 1)

Well, no problem, then let's say all those uncommitted delegates can go to anyone- including you- but Clinton.

Serious question- Is This Snark?

by ragekage on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:11:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My delegates (none / 0)

I understand the argument but some voters, the day of the primary, are genuinely Uncommitted. There have been votes cast for Uncommitted in May primaries (I think it was North Carolina, maybe Kentucky also?).

Lifelong Democrat, civil rights advocate, former volunteer for Dem candidates. Now Independent.

by BPK80 on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:22:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama should stop demanding a 50/50 split in M (none / 0)

Can you point to where it was "demanded"?

That was the solution his campaign proposed. If he denies a compromise, then you could claim he demanded it.

by BlueGAinDC on Sat May 31, 2008 at 05:38:03 PM EST

Popular Vote Meme (2.00 / 1)

I actually think that this is solely about the popular vote meme that Clinton has been pressing so hard.

If he can get the delegates split 50/50 then the Michigan vote will be seen as even more illegitimate and will discredit her "I am the popular vote winner" strategy.

McCain = bad Obama = good

by CAchemist on Sat May 31, 2008 at 05:40:58 PM EST

i understand what you guys/gals are saying (2.00 / 1)

My point is that we need to get rid of this problem yesterday, as opposed to getting into a traditional offer/counteroffer situation. The one thing Clinton wants most is to drag this out as long as possible.

by highgrade on Sat May 31, 2008 at 05:41:39 PM EST

Re: i understand what you guys/gals are saying (2.00 / 1)

They won't let her. Don't worry.

Serious question- Is This Snark?

by ragekage on Sat May 31, 2008 at 05:42:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: i understand what you guys/gals are saying (none / 0)

I really hope you're right but I don't think you are.

Congratulations Steny Hoyer! Our 2008 Chickenshit Leader Of The Year!

by RockvilleLiberal2 on Sat May 31, 2008 at 05:53:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: i understand what you guys/gals are saying (2.00 / 1)

I know, it's okay to be concerned, but man, no matter how powerful she is, she won't be able to withstand a GoreCarterDeanPelosiReid smackdown if she decides her conceit is worth more than anything else, and most Clinton supporters I've talked to here agree with that.

Serious question- Is This Snark?

by ragekage on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:12:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: i understand what you guys/gals are saying (none / 0)

Yeah I get that, but you're basing that on a rational, logic based end game scenario. Problem is, we don't know what the end game scenario is that Bill and Hillary are playing for. I'm in no way saying they aren't rational or logical, in fact, they may be two of the most gifted politicians of their generation. But, I simply have no idea what their endgame is. If it is something that is completely opposite of what everyone thinks it is (i.e. Pelosi, Dean, Gore, et al), then are approaching the situation with a belief that the resolution will be based on a series of supposed facts that are incorrect. Bill and Hillary think 6 moves head, not 1 or 2. Just sayin...

Congratulations Steny Hoyer! Our 2008 Chickenshit Leader Of The Year!

by RockvilleLiberal2 on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:50:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama should stop demanding (1.50 / 2)

he has no votes in MI, so making that demand is a veiled way to demand he get votes that didn't go for him. She followed the rules, and he did too, but elected to take his name off the ballot. He can have the uncommitted delegates if he waits until August, they're selecting those by who wants him.

Hillary - alternative energy

by anna shane on Sat May 31, 2008 at 05:42:19 PM EST

Re: Obama should stop demanding (none / 0)

Actually, we heard today he and Edwards tried to get back on the ballot once it was clear what Clinton did, to no avail... and there were some 30,000 write-in votes for Senator Obama, too. Now, I'm glad you're taking a look at this very pragmatically, fairly, and with the intent of honoring the will of the people who voted Uncommitted in Michigan- truly, your totally unbiased stance here is to be commended. I'm certain they'll have a 69/59 split or something similar.

Serious question- Is This Snark?

by ragekage on Sat May 31, 2008 at 05:44:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama should stop demanding (none / 0)

they didn't bring that up in their argument.

Hillary - alternative energy

by anna shane on Sat May 31, 2008 at 05:46:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama should stop demanding (none / 0)

Sure they did, in trying to illustrate how flawed the process was.

Serious question- Is This Snark?

by ragekage on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:14:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama should stop demanding (none / 0)

if that was the case, why didn't Obama and Edwards file the paperwork (heck, they have a lot of people that could have filled that out) so that any write-ins for them would have been counted for them?

they didn't.

by colebiancardi on Sat May 31, 2008 at 05:48:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama should stop demanding (none / 0)

I dunno if there's a transcript of the meeting up anywhere yet, but didn't they said at that point they couldn't, the Michigan SecState wouldn't let 'em?

Serious question- Is This Snark?

by ragekage on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:14:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama should stop demanding (none / 0)

no. The Michigan Sec of State would not let the write-in's count because the candidates did NOT fill out the paper work. If they had, they would have counted.

Obama refused to fill out the paper work.

by colebiancardi on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:35:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama should stop demanding (none / 0)

But then that would've been participating in the contest, would it not?

Serious question- Is This Snark?

by ragekage on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:38:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama should stop demanding (none / 0)

no. Not according to the guidelines. Participating is campaigning and ads. Not having your name on the ballot or registering paper work.

by colebiancardi on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:39:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama should stop demanding (none / 0)

The 4-state pledge had the words "participating or campaigning" as if these indicate two separate things. It's only the Clinton spin that participating is identical to campaigning - but in that case why would there be two words for it?

by Aris Katsaris on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:46:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama should stop demanding (2.00 / 1)

good god, you have to realize this can't go to August if we want to win. I would rather all of the SD's go crazy and mass endorse Clinton tomorrow than this incredibly destructive inner paty battle go on until the convention. Actually, the SD's and all of Obama's pledged delegates could defect to Mike Gravel and I would be happier than this crap going on until August.

by Xris on Sat May 31, 2008 at 05:45:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama should stop demanding (none / 0)

it has too, it's close and he can't win enough to avoid the convention. That will bring unity, we'll all accept the winner on the convention floor, and it'll be fun. He'll bring out his promises of those who'll go his way, but it's not in cement until the convention. it'll be fun.

Hillary - alternative energy

by anna shane on Sat May 31, 2008 at 05:48:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama should stop demanding (none / 0)

How will it be fun for these two to keep fighting all summer? Do you actually believe that is a great idea if we want to win in November? If you truly believe that, then please explain in more detail how a convention battle helps either candidate politically in November.

by Xris on Sat May 31, 2008 at 05:50:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama should stop demanding (none / 0)

I don't hate either of them, but it'll also keep bush and john off the front page, we'll rule the news, one of them will get much stronger and one much weaker and then we'll all be prepared for one of them to win.

Hillary - alternative energy

by anna shane on Sat May 31, 2008 at 05:54:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama should stop demanding (none / 0)

Do you understand that is not how it has happened in the past? The party that takes the nomination to the convention loses in November.

McCain = bad Obama = good

by CAchemist on Sat May 31, 2008 at 05:57:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama should stop demanding (2.00 / 1)

Losing to McCain is not my idea of fun

by DreamsOfABlueNation on Sat May 31, 2008 at 05:58:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama should stop demanding (1.00 / 1)

She did not follow any rules. She signed the 4 states pledge along with the other candidates which stated that she would "not campaign and NOT PARTICIPATE". Look up participate in the dictionary. It means to take part or get a benefit or share in. Leaving her name on the ballot was a violation of the pledge to not participate. She offered the lame excuse that the votes wouldn't count anyway so it wouldn't matter.

The MI Democratic party recognizes that the election was a sham. Hillary's position is transparently self serving and dishonest. It won't win her the election and it won't win her the votes of uncommitted SD's. In a week this will be over.

by hankg on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:07:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama should stop demanding (none / 0)

In a week this will be over but not because of what you said. What you said is a total lie with a complete lack of shame. If you knew more, you will know that Obama tried to get his name back on the ballot.

It was a gimmick Obama played and he is now using that as a political ploy. But your shameless lie fed by the campaign will try to ignore Obama's hypocrisy.

by Sandeep on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:25:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama should stop demanding (none / 0)

You can get copies from the FL dem web site and 100's of other places online. Read it. It says "I pledge I shall NOT CAMPAIGN OR PARTICIPATE in any election contest occurring in any state not already authorized by the DNC to take place in the DNC approved pre-window ". How is that a lie? It's in writing, in plain unambiguous english.

Four State Pledge Letter 2008

Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, South Carolina
August 28, 2007

WHEREAS, the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee, along with approval from the full body of the DNC, established the 2008 Presidential nominating calendar in 2005.

WHEREAS, the nominating calendar increases diversity with the early participation of African Americans, Hispanics, Asian Americans, Native Americans and labor members.

WHEREAS, the nominating calendar honors the traditional role of retail politics early in the nominating process.

WHEREAS, the nominating calendar provides geographical balance with contests in the Heartland, East, South and West.

WHEREAS, it is the desire of Presidential campaigns, the DNC, the states and the American people to bring finality, predictability and common sense to the nominating calendar.

WHEREAS, the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee will strip states of 100% of their delegates and super delegates to the DNC National Convention if they violate the nomination calendar.

THEREFORE, I ____ _, Democratic Candidate for President, in honor and in accordance with DNC rules, pledge to actively campaign in the pre-approved early states Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina. I pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any election contest occurring in any state not already authorized by the DNC to take place in the DNC approved pre-window (any date prior to February 5, 2008). Campaigning shall include but is not limited to purchasing media or campaign advocacy of any kind, attending or hosting events of more than 200 people to promote one's candidacy for a preference primary and employing staff in the state in question. It does not include activities specifically related to raising campaign resources such as fundraising events or the hiring of fundraising staff.

____ ___ __ ___
John/Jane Doe, Doe for President DATE
_.,._

When Hillary announced her intention to cheat by keeping her name on the ballot Edwards and Obama tried to get their names put back on. It's all in the public record.

by hankg on Sat May 31, 2008 at 09:24:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I think the Obama campaign (2.00 / 1)

is compromising right now BEHIND CLOSED DOORS.

by puma on Sat May 31, 2008 at 05:43:53 PM EST

Well that's just being nice to MI. They violated (none / 0)

the rules and are lucky if any delegates count.

John McCain on social security.

by heresjohnny on Sat May 31, 2008 at 05:47:54 PM EST

Hey Alegre (2.00 / 1)

Obama just resigned from his church of 20 years.

Happy?

by Deadalus on Sat May 31, 2008 at 05:53:02 PM EST

Obama's failed Strategy (none / 0)

I'm sick and tired of hearing those scum bags call Obama's name omittion a "failed strategy." What type of strategy should he have implemented for an election that wasn't supposed to count?

ALL PARTIES AGREED before hand that FL and MI weren't going to count. For this reason all parties agreed not to even campaign there.

So WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY TALKING ABOUT? Failed strategy? Oh, wait a minute! I think I got it! While Hillary Clinton was pretending to accept, endorse and go along with the DNC decision she was secretly strategizing.

Hillary Clinton was questioned as to why she kept her name on the Michigan ballot. They just admitted she flat out lied.

"It's clear, this election they're having is not going to count for anything, But I just personally did not want to set up a situation where the Republicans are going to be campaigning between now and whenever, and then after the nomination, we have to go in and repair the damage to be ready to win Michigan in 2008."

OK, that's reasonable. She understands Michigan does not count but she's keeping her name on because, she's the favorite to win, and she doesn't want the Republicans to use it against her.

Low and behold SHE is this hypothetical Republican using it against the democratic winner, in this case, Obama.

Obama, Edwards, Biden and Richardson did NOT have a failed strategy. They had no strategy at all since they were keeping with the spirit of their agreement and the DNC rules. Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, just admitted it was a strategy all along. And a pretty slimy one at that.

Gobama!

by USArmyParatrooper on Sat May 31, 2008 at 05:57:03 PM EST

Completely agree! (2.00 / 1)

Obama will still be the nominee, this should be wrapped up today.

by catfish2 on Sat May 31, 2008 at 05:57:31 PM EST

Seat the Delegates, they're fair! (1.50 / 2)

Sure the Clinton and the rest of the candidates agreed, signed on to, and did not complain about the ground rules.

Sure Clinton was the only major name on the ballot.

Sure the people of Michigan were told their votes won't count by Clinton and the rest of the DNC.

Sure a whole mess of voters stayed home because of this.

Sure we have NO idea how many Clinton votes were Obama or Edwards supporters casting their second choice.

Sure this whole thing is making a mockery of the Democratic process. At least Hillary gets to keep fighting for her birthright.

Gobama!

by USArmyParatrooper on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:03:27 PM EST

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